Reflections on Two Churches — Redeemer Presbyterian (New York) and Mars Hill (Seattle)

Crônicas do Cotidiano > Reflections on Two Churches — Redeemer Presbyterian (New York) and Mars Hill (Seattle)

(Meu Filho traduziu o post anterior e resolvi postar esta adaptação para meus amigos e parentes que apenas lêem inglês).

(This blog posting was originally written in Portuguese and translated by my son in Bangladesh for his own use. I decided to “double-post” it so that family and friends might also have access to it, as well as other interested English speakers. These reflections came about after a three-week trip, from São Paulo, Brazil to the USA, in order to participate in our youngest son’s wedding in Boise, Idaho, at which time we also did some sightseeing in New York and family visiting in the Tacoma, Washington vicinity.)

(Conclusion of a series about the time we spent in New York City)

I still need to write about something worthwhile we experienced in New York – a church service on the corner of Broadway with 79th St. on Sunday, June 15. Redeemer Presbyterian Church, pastored by Tim Keller, meets at First Baptist Church at 5:00 PM and 7:15 PM (and in two other places at three other times–see http://www.redeemer.com/sundays/service_info.html). This experience was even more interesting because two Sundays later we were able to contrast it with a church service on the other side of the country, where we went to Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington, pastored by Mark Driscoll.

These two pastors (Keller and Driscoll) are well-known in the United States. While they have been the object of much praise and considerable media interest, at the same time they have been the target of criticism and controversy. They are people who “emerged” (so to speak) from a few aspects in the traditional concept of “church,” both in format as well as in liturgy, but who fight to keep their faith and their commitment to the Word of God (and to the God of the Word) intact as they try to reach the people of their respective cities (real-life urban missions). This means they are often confused with and at the same time distinguished from the movement known as “emergent” in that country. We were curious to know about their ministries in person, in these rare occasions where we were able to attend a different church anonymously and without any engagements (most often we attend different churches in Brazil because Solano has been invited to preach there).

Both churches were full of young people–not so much teenagers, but university students and professionals, especially from the academic and artistic sphere (between 20 and 35 years old). Of the few people our age that I saw, most looked like hippies, with a few exceptions. The dress in New York, as casual as it may be, is quite different from the informal wear in Seattle.

I have to confess that, although I felt a bit uncomfortable with certain aspects of the service and with the appearance and attire of some of those in leadership and in the congregation, and though I did not much appreciate the style of most of the songs (jazz in New York and grunge in Seattle), in both churches I was able to hear excellent sermons, entirely biblical, which made me think and want to be a better disciple of my master, Jesus. (Mark Driscoll preached for an hour and fifteen minutes to a riveted audience, who showed no impatience with the length of the sermon!–about the majesty of Jesus in the last chapters of Revelation–none of those young people seemed to feel that this was long, and our group didn’t either).

In New York, I saw my children praising God in the songs with an intensity that I do not see when they participate in our church’s worship. Seattle’s musical style, on the other hand, did not appeal much to them either (the communion music sounded like a funereal march). Both services presented much material for reflection about different styles of praising God; about what constitutes a church; and about Christian love and tolerance. Personally, if I had to opt for one of the two, based on these visits, I would prefer the New York church. But that doesn’t mean that God is working less in the church in Seattle, or even in mine here in Brazil…

What follows is a summary of the New York service in my husband’s words, in a letter sent to friends. As I mentioned before, he was also planning to write a letter about Seattle, but he hasn’t been able to do so (he says he might still blog about his “grunge experience”). After Solano’s summary, I’ll continue with my own laywoman’s analysis of the two churches above, based on what I saw (and considering a few things I’ve read).

American Chronicles II – June 15, 2008

Tonight we went to Tim Keller’s Redeemer church. Since he doesn’t believe in spending money on building churches, he rents a university auditorium (it must seat around 3000 people) at a campus on the west side of Central Park (5 PM service). He also rents a building from the First Baptist Church of New York, to the east of Central Park (services at 5 PM and 7:15 PM). We went to the latter location for the 5 PM service. It is a beautiful and historic church building. My impression was that it probably did not hold evening services any more and might have been floundering. Redeemer’s congregation, however, manages to fill the building to capacity for both services. There were many young people there. The songs were contemporary worship songs, very well chosen and done in good taste. Some of them were new arrangements and adaptations of well-known hymns. A five-person team (piano, drums, sax, electric guitar, bass) played with a jazzy style, but nothing exaggerated or obnoxious. A woman with a beautiful and well-trained voice led the singing.

The liturgy was extremely structured, with an eighteen-page bulletin describing all the steps. A pastor or young official led the steps in the liturgy that, in essence, was very traditional. There were no dances or other modern inventions in the worship. There were many readings and biblical exhortations, always from the service leader, not from the praise team–which does not present itself separately, but integrates the entire service and all the songs from beginning to end.

When it was time for the sermon, Tim Keller appeared. By this point he had preached three times on that same day–this would be his fourth sermon. In his usual style, that I had gotten to know last year when I had attended Redeemer at the other location once with my son Darius, he talked about self-control, based on two biblical passages: 1 Corinthians 9:23-27 and 10:1-13. That’s right: he TALKS, rather than preaches. Anyone would say – “this preacher will never go anywhere, chit-chatting that way.” However, Keller displays an excellence in communication skills: he developed a biblical exposition which was extremely logical and easy to understand. The central reformed doctrines are all there, as foundation and support. Everyone paid great attention and seemed to understand the exposition. He really brought to light several points which are very valid, but which I had not yet seen in the text–and rooted them in the Word. I was very impressed by his “talk”.

The bulletin of the church indicates the activities in which they are involved–an incredible number, showing the community aspect that transcends the Sunday services. As an example, they have a group that reads fiction books and discusses them from a Christian perspective. The discussion is from this perspective, not necessarily the book itself. At the moment they are reading a book by Saramago.

I left there, as I did the first time a year ago, with an excellent impression of him and of the church. He seems to be doing really great work in the crazy metropolis of New York.

That’s all for today. Solano

Adding to what Solano has said, the bulletin contains two pages listing regular and sporadic activities and meetings in the life of the congregation, as well as opportunities for fellowship for specific professional or intellectual groups, such as: teachers, lawyers, businessmen, actors and film producers, post-graduate students, and fiction readers. There are also Support Groups: Families of Substance Abusers, Boundaries in Relationships, Women’s Anger, Life After Loss, Divorce Recovery, Financial Recovery, Job Search, Beyond Abuse, and so on. Still other groups are just starting off (they are created as needed): Post-Abortion Recovery, Surviving Cancer, Pain Management, Eating Disorder Recovery…

My daughter commented, about a month after we attended the service, that she still thinks about Tim Keller’s sermon. I also enjoyed learning from him about self-control. My notes from the sermon overflow the margins of nearly all of the bulletin’s eighteen pages. (I always try to make notes, because my attention tends to get “stuck” on a certain point and drift far, far away. This means I often miss out on important parts of sermons or lectures. Writing things down helps me to keep “tuned in”–and better yet, gives me an aid for reflecting later about what was talked about. This helps me to remember a bit better what God was trying to teach me on that day, in that place, through that person…). I was planning to write about the points that spoke to me, but I’ll leave that for another post, perhaps.

Instead, I’ll go on with my evaluation of the two churches I mentioned. Mars Hill (in Seattle) is where a young friend of our son’s congregates. He became somewhat of an adoptive son to us when he spent five months in Brazil, about seven years ago. We went with him on the afternoon of Sunday, June 29, after going to my sister’s church in the morning (where we heard an excellent sermon from pastor Glenn Fisher, a friend of ours since college days). This young man and his wife are very involved in the church’s evangelism and discipleship ministries. Both grew up in Christian families and were educated in Christian schools, and though they are still young they are part of the group which does the grunt work that supports Mars Hill’s ministries.

My brother-in-law, who lives in a nearby city, made a very interesting (and pertinent) observation about Mars Hill (which I also believe applies to Redeemer). He mentioned that as time passes, the young people who were converted at the church are marrying and having children. They are discovering that they are missing something that exists in a church that isn’t “new”. What’s missing are the people to whom Paul refers to in the second chapter of Titus–the “older” men and women who have enough experience to guide and help the younger ones in their day to day; lay people who serve as examples, instructors, exhorters, encouragers. There is an attempt to supplement this lack by depending on books. Very good books, of course–the bookstore at the church has many great titles. But they end up being a substitute, where biblical principles are being absorbed through written words rather than through examples that can be seen and emulated. And not everyone likes to read… And there will often be times when there is no book close at hand with the same answer that an experienced human being could offer.

I think the goal that these churches have embraced, to reach people lost in the urban jungles that surround them, without God and without hope, is extremely valid and necessary. These people are often not attracted to our more “traditional” churches, for various reasons, valid or not. But it is going to be interesting to see if the focus of those two churches will follow the aging of the thousands of original members, or if it will be turned to ideas and styles from which the majority of members now differ, including and ministering to children and teenagers and enveloping people of different origins and tastes. After all, in their impetus to reach and welcome certain excluded and unreached groups, it seems to me that they ended up being involuntary “victims” of an inverse exclusivism: including the excluded, but discarding those who should have been welcomed for their spiritual experience and stability.

However, I also recognize that some of their critiques to the “traditional” churches deserve our attention, and that there are some things that we need to re-think, change, and improve. I believe it is valid to consider that God designed the Church to be a kind of hospital. For many of us that have already been diagnosed and medicated by the Lord Jesus (experienced Christians), it provides soothing and light prevention and maintenance treatments with small interventions here and there.

We have to be careful, however, not to think of the Church as a spiritual spa. It’s not our job to stay in luxurious air-conditioned “rooms“, staffed by well-paid experts who try to cater to our whims and relieve our pains. Sometimes we convey the impression that we are not, nor ever were, truly ill.

We also need to avoid the tendency to think that we are better off isolated, imagining that in this manner there will be no chance that we (or our precious children) succumb to infection by evil (as if our problem with sin came only from external sources and not from inside, from our very own heart).

Often we pretend that we are not among those called by God to deal with or face the side effects of sin’s contagion, to free those who are outside of our circles from their blindness, deafness, pains and afflictions, and finally, from the peril of death.

In fact, God does graciously give us the places and moments of shelter and refreshment that our churches should offer, but these should not result in our getting over-comfortable and forgetting for what we have been called . He heals and strengthens us to work — to cooperate with Him in the task of redeeming and sanctifying individuals.

We need to recognize (in a manner similar to the leadership in the two churches I’m talking about) that the hospital-church must also offer emergency care and an intensive care unit. And we, the members of the church, are the ones who must become the volunteer caregivers and nurses in these places. Many times, we may get anguished and discouraged with our own lack of preparation and with the tremendous lack of resources, both human and financial, but we are the ones who are called to give first-aid and follow-up treatment.

Those who understand this calling from God are usually trained on the spot, and face tormented days and poorly-slept nights as they dirty their hands and clothes–spattered and sullied with blood and filth as they try desperately to warn and save their coworkers, friends, neighbors, and family members from vices and dangers that they do not always want to acknowledge, avoid, or get better from. (Thankfully, in the Scripture and in prayer we can find all that we need to avoid infection and contagion and to renew ourselves for this effort, using them as antidotes against the flaming darts of an enemy who does not want his servants to be rescued.)

The fact is that few specialists and experts (pastors, elders, theologians and others) feel that they have enough skills to deal with the maladies and ailments that surround them (and that come right into the church as new people are evangelized and converted). Trying to untangle someone from the devil’s bonds and then lead him/her to a transformed and healthy life may be neither easy nor pleasurable. But it is what must happen when a church understands its evangelistic mission and seeks out, welcomes, and incorporates newly converted members. Have you ever noticed that often God only draws us out of our apathy and lethargy when someone we care about ends up sick, helpless or imprisoned, be it literally or figuratively? Suddenly we look around and can’t understand why “no one does anything,” and we start looking for people who are willing to help, sometimes finding no one in our own church or denomination.

Those who do put themselves at God’s disposal to be used in this manner will be amazed and energized by the results. When God really regenerates someone, the process of accompanying them in their recovery period will consist not only of failures but of victories as well. In this manner, new member-volunteers will eventually arise, able to use their own experience and learning, to help diagnose and treat similar sicknesses and wounds in others. That’s why it is essential and wonderful to develop ministries that attend to the needs of various types of people (going beyond the usual age/gender classifications).

Going back to my brother-in-law’s observation, however, I have to agree with its truth. So I conclude that: We must never eschew the concept of family which must characterize the Christian community, where there are not only brothers, but also people who are able to serve and stimulate others in their relationship with God, acting as grandparents, parents, children, uncles, aunts, nephews and nieces, and cousins (both in fact and in faith). That requires a group that includes all ages and is willing to open its arms to people at various social and professional levels, as well as those who had all sorts of lifestyles before their conversion.

Thus I think the CHURCH designed by God must be much more than a ministry directed to a single group of people–be it defined by age, race, social status, artists, surfers, young professionals, or focused mainly on people with one type of sinful lifestyle previous to conversion, even if the original work and impetus for the congregation began in this way.

If we follow the biblical example, a church that starts as “contemporary” and homogenous will end up becoming “inclusivist”. It will eventually have a heterogeneous and multifaceted congregation, made up of new Christians and experienced ones. It can (and should), of course, specialize in some ministries because it is made up of individuals enabled by God with specific abilities and gifts. But for a “contemporary” church to grow stronger it has to attract and make use of those who, because they are “traditional” and know the Word of God, have the balance and the spiritual knowledge to contribute towards guiding new believers from the infant phase to maturity. “Content” and “experience” end up being very important elements after the initial conversion. Therefore, it is important to learn that not everything that is old is bad and disposable.

At the same time, “traditional churches” need to recognize and applaud the aspirations of the “contemporary communities” (such as the ones above) to become relevant to new generations through the use of new approaches (since the old ones no longer work). Therefore, it is important to learn that not everything that is new is bad and despicable.

Wrapping this up, it was great to see those ministries and to hear those sermons. I see that most of the power in those churches comes from the pulpit (as it should be), but I also see that the engagement and involvement of members on multiple fronts for communion and counseling give practical continuity to the powerful messages, greatly taking the burden off of the pastor’s shoulders. Such burdens can be unbearable by one person in big churches such as those.

So here I am back in my own church, with my family of faith. It isn’t a perfect church, of course, for no such things exist. It’s also located far away from where I currently live, but my spiritual family is there. And that is very precious! It’s, furthermore, a church in which people of all ages, social status and intellectual capacities worship God, learn about Him and receive support from their fellow members, which is both healthy and exemplary. We feel and develop fraternal bonds with several brothers and sisters in the faith and we are making an effort to seek out and welcome new people. There is teaching, support, and growth, both individual and collective. We are strengthening and improving the teaching and practices involved in evangelism and discipleship, both in terms of approach and of content, to better enable many who have always wished to reach out to those outside the church and who have already been instrumental in bringing many of our current members to faith.

So let us sit on the pews during our services: let us pray, praise, learn and fellowship. And during the week, let us be volunteers in the kingdom of God, ready to leave the spa to create emergency centers and intensive care units inside and outside of our churches. Let’s be willing to deal with the illnesses (spiritual and physical) of those who certainly never thought or wanted to check themselves in and who may take a long time to understand and accept the divine diagnosis and acknowledge that the medicines and therapies offered only work when applied in the proper manner.

Not all are able to help with those on the outside, those who act, speak and think differently, and/or who are enslaved to various types of vices or sinful lifestyles. But we need to support and congratulate those who make themselves available for this arduous task, by choice or by necessity. At the same time, let us develop our fraternal bonds on the inside, as a family, loving and being loved, serving and being served–all because God, our Father, has called us first and chosen us to be His very own sons and daughters and, hence, brothers, sisters, and witnesses.

So when someone feels called by our Saviour to start a new ministry to reach those people whom few know how to approach (or whom few want to reach at all), let us pray for him or her, bite our tongues before criticizing them harshly, and put ourselves in their place when we feel like censuring them because we feel a certain result or method should be different. Let us offer only constructive criticism based on the Word of the One who ordains and enables both us and them to transform the world in loving service to Him.

And let us carefully investigate before discarding or despising a person or a ministry in public. Few things can hurt or discourage more than being unexpectedly and publicly misunderstood or opposed by those whom we respect and love, when we are trying to sincerely serve our God. The so-called “friendly fire” can be very painful, and sometimes fatal.

Betty

“…I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible…To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.” (The Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:19, 22, 23).

[Praise be to God] who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God.” (The Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 1:4).

And we urge you, brothers, warn those who are idle, encourage the timid, help the weak, be patient with everyone.” (Also the Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:14).

2 Comentários a “Reflections on Two Churches — Redeemer Presbyterian (New York) and Mars Hill (Seattle)”

  1. Dalva Herold disse:

    Olá, boa-noite amigos!
    Gostaria de saber se este artigo está também em português. Como achá-lo?
    Muito obrigada.

  2. betty disse:

    Olá, Dalva: O link está bem em cima da página em inglês.
    http://www.cronicasdocotidiano.com/?p=303
    Abs, Betty

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Crônicas do Cotidiano > Reflections on Two Churches — Redeemer Presbyterian (New York) and Mars Hill (Seattle)